In a drummer round table in Down Beat magazine (March, 1973), Larry Bunker, Shelly Manne and Donald Bailey discuss soloing:
Larry Bunker: When I solo I always think in terms of the structure of the tune, and I play choruses. I will invariably lose the guys in the band, but I will know where I am.
Down Beat: You think in terms of first 8, second 8, release, etc.?
Bunker: I always think of 4-bar phrases and 8-bar phrases. I may turn it around and go into odd things, cross the bar lines, and Lord knows what, and arrive at what would be important accents in places that are not important accents. But that’s how I’m constructing it. The band may think that I’ve made a mistake. They don’t have the additional framework to hear it against. It’s like pianist Russ Freeman. He could play three choruses out of time and finally the whole rhythm section would give up and go with him, and he’d say, “Why did you do that? I didn’t turn the time around.”
Shelly Manne: That’s right. He always knew where he was.
Bunker: Now if you’re talking about playing with Miles’ band, then it’s freak-out time: no bar lines, no meter, not even a center of tonality, and everybody’s hung out here in space. That’s another thing.
Manne: But that may not always be the case with a band. Even if a guy is not always playing 8, 8, 8, in the structured sense of the song, some of the new groups today may be doing Take the A Train, or any tune, and they may be opening it up in a way you’re not aware of. They may take the first 8 bars and put a 4-bar extension on it, or a 2-bar extension on it. So there are times when the relation to choruses, per se, is not so important.
Donald Bailey: I think about the song I’m playing. I learn the way certain tunes are constructed, so when I play I think of changes. Also, if I’m playing a song and it’s sort of “out,” I may interpret it in a style that I heard ‘Trane play, you know, in that groove on my drums. If I’m playing something in a be-bop style, I’ll try to play my solo in a way that I’ve heard Bird play, at the same time following the changes.
Manne: I always think in relationship to the melody. Not that I’m chained to it. It’s merely a boundary, and the challenge is to use that boundary, or stay within that boundary, then go beyond. I think a musician has to reach a little beyond what he’s capable of doing.
Two things, it’s funny that Larry Bunker, a well established mid-career musician by that point, is talking about musicians frequently getting lost during his solos, still. Also, noting Shelly Manne’s view— a musician has to reach a little beyond what he’s capable of doing— contrasted with the prevailing view now, that we should have lots of technique “headroom” above and beyond what we actually need, so everything we’re reasonably going to play is super easy.
Manne’s view is more realistic— given that everyone has limitations, however much technique they acquire— and is more what I’m interested in artistically. I think musicians should be reaching for something beyond what they know, that they are awesome at executing. The headroom view is more of a polish-seeking mindset. Thinking that way at times has a purpose, I wouldn’t want to live my whole playing life like that. I’m not very interested in musicians with whom I never sense that that they’re playing something unknown to themselves.
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